Christianity is a mental disease.

[Ted]

Failure to read this first part of the post is not healthy for your status as a not-banned member.

Before I begin, I need to say that this is a special topic unlike any we've ever had in the debate section before in that not everyone gets to participate. It is only for those without religion and those with who aren't too bigoted and arrogant to imagine a hypothetical world in which they do not believe in any supernatural beings. If you do not fit into one of these two groups, you will not be able to contribute in the least. Any 'Only if it's a sign of maladjustment to believe in rocks!' material should be in that other topic with 'Christian' in its name, and if you bring it here, I will rape you without mercy.

That said, feel free to add in your two cents.

Consider a hypothetical man named Carl. Carl is around 40, an age that would suggest that he's seen his share of things, been exposed to a fairly wide range of ideas, and had time to wrestle with any issue he found interesting. Carl's middle-middle-class, went to college, and has a pretty stable, comfortable life. Carl has an friend whom we will call Steve. Carl thinks Steve is a great guy - no, he thinks Steve is fantastic. Steve is invisible, exists on a level above the rest of us, and has magical powers of sight and influence. Carl frequently asks Steve for help with difficult events in his life, and while Steve never really talks back, Carl often sees his influence in favorable outcomes. In return, Carl dedicates himself to Steve, and lives according to a pamphlet which he is sure Steve wrote, or at least strongly influenced. To Carl, Steve is as real as you and I, and questioning his existence questions a lot of the pillars of how Carl sees the world.

Now, obviously, the metaphor is paper-thin, but can anyone honestly tell me that this kind of thinking is within the acceptable limits that define sanity and stability in our current society?

[Snowdazed]

The sad thing is that were Christianity not so old and massly followed, anyone actively following its beliefs would in fact be taken to a pyschologist.
It's a fairly new religion, all things considered (look at buddhism), yet it's taken the world by storm - and I'm sure the raping, pillaging, and killing its opposers helped that muchly.
The problem with it is that real devote Christians can not even fathom that their view is wrong, skewed, or derranged. Perhaps it isn't (though I highly doubt that), but they won't even give you the thought.
While it's a very thin analogy, it sadly brings to mind the clear image that god is an imaginary friend. While this is the first time I've ever even heard of it that way in all my years of atheism (which irks me, really o.O), it is true.
Maybe that's why children go along with it so easily, as well as because their parents tell them they have to.

[Ted]

Sure, there's a chance they're right. However, that kind of absolute conviction isn't even appropriate for gravity.

Dead on with that last bit. You remember the wonderful little fantasy we've talked about about getting a kid just to **** with his impressionable little mind? Well, that's how religion survives. Parents use their near-absolute authority in their kids' eyes to tell them God exists in the same tone as telling them that you won't get far in society if you randomly fork people, and, it's interesting to note, to reinforce their own authority. I know I wasn't raised to treat my parents as gods themselves, or at least not to the degree that our fundie friends were.

This brings up a fun issue, by the way - whose fault is all this? The parents', yes, but why can't they think outside religion? Somewhere back in time, there is one man who holds all the blame for almost every bad thing that has ever been done.

[Snowdazed]

Personally I think it was all a way to gain power (and I'm probably right with that, or he was just drunk/dellusional). He created these laws, claimed they were from a higher being, tried to explain phenomenon which could not be explained at the time with the oh so wonderful escape route of "God did it/made me do it/will keep on doing it unless you worship me" etc.
And, since people were in crisis or whatever, wanted answers, who cares, they believed and followed him.
You'd be surprised what you can get people to believe if you say it with enough conviction.
I bet he either died rich and happy, or was murdered brutally or sacrificed.


Of course on the child issue, I think the parents believe it themselves. That, or they don't want their child tainted so force them into church (as they probably have some religious beliefs and what not) and youthgroups (which start it all, I ****ing hate those things, they're terrible. I was dragged to one by a friend and it was the worst experience of my life, sort of), and the kids impressionable minds just kind of...fly with it.
I mean, who wouldn't want an imaginary friend who will always love you and redeem you of all sin?? It's the perfect thing!

Fortunately I was able to think for myself and get out of it, but some just aren't that lucky.

The absolute conviction thing I totally agree on. How anyone could be that sure that God exists, with no proof whatsoever, is beyond me.
Notice how they always try and point at nature and claim that's their proof?

[Ted]

Oh, the parents totally believe it themselves. It's their parents' fault that they believe, though, and it's their grandparents' fault that their parents believe, ad infinitum.

They'll point at anything their crippled little minds can latch on to.

[Meijin No Rekka]

The only problem is, they can't even see their imaginary friend.  Obviously it's their parent's fault yeah.  Superego and all.

I'm not sure if the person who started this whole charade was a drunk though.  There's some pretty profound stuff in there, I dont think a drunk could even materialize that much bs.  I think it's because humans get lonely without any help.  Well weak ones anyway.  Why do we have kings?  Why do we have religions?  Without guidance, people become scared.  Without someone to tell them what to do.  Thats what I think.

[Ted]

As if the Bible is the work of one person, or even a comprehensible number of people?

[Meijin No Rekka]

Hmm not sure.

[Snowdazed]

I think the idea could have started out as a drunk man's idea (kind of like the Church of Scientology. Bunch of science fiction writers at bar, drinking, betting on who could make the most popular book. Ta-da).

I think the bible was written by many others.
I'd have liked to see the bits which didn't make it.

[Blairy]

The Bible is highly imperfect. It contradicts itself countless times. In fact, in the first chapter of Genesis, it contradicts itself.

[digidested2000]

I've gotta ask, tho'.
who the HELL first STARTED this whole damn thing?
also, i mean, most of the big religions make reference to the same event, right? makes ya kinda think.. grain of truth? i mean, a guy named jesus existed, that much we know, but what IS true and what isn't?

[Ted]

Over 6 billion people believe in at least one imaginary man in the sky/rocks/animals/whatever. That doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

[digidested2000]

i will agree whole-heartedly that it's absolutely unbelievable. however, i'm just sayin', don'cha think it's sorta an odd coincidence?

[Ted]

Nope. Religion (not unlike a virus) perpetuates itself in populations by spreading from person to person - almost genetically, it would seem.

[digidested2000]

so, in layman's terms, what you're saying is

religion is pretty much a centuries old game of telephone?